Tommi's reports from Wonderland

December 12, 2006 2D Barcode Manifesto Posted by Tommi at 02:50 PM | Categories: Nokia S60 applications

Seven months have passed since I wrote the post titled "2D barcodes will rule the earth", which provoked a lively discussion. Thank you for that.

Now, we are finally about to put Nokia's Barcode Reader application under N80 and N73 support pages, and to the Download! client. In addition, the app should be in the latest N93 firmware in all variants. However, it will work only in these devices. There is a simple explanation for this: to ensure the best possible user experience, we will have to do tweaks for each camera module, and build separate versions of the app.

Anyway, here's my 10-point manifesto about 2D barcodes, mimicking Guy Kawasaki's famous presentation style. I wanted to publish this post on the day that the app becomes available, but I'll be on vacation during 13-26 December. I hope the app becomes available during this time.

Read on, my friends.

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2D Barcode Manifesto

1. The potential of 2D barcodes is limited only by your imagination

There are loads of potential use cases. See for example:
- David Harper: Mainstream America is Ready for Bar Codes - Converging “Realspace” and “Mobilespace”
- Pondering Primate: Amazon Japan Offers Scan Search
- Semapedia
- Barcodepedia
- etc. (feel free to continue the list)

2. Mobile devices - formerly known as phones - will define the game

I have no idea how many barcode scanners there are currently in the world. In any case, the vast majority of these are built for industrial/retail use, and they are firmly attached to something physical.

Now, imagine that:
- there would be 10-100x more devices capable of scanning barcodes
- these devices would be mobile
- these devices would be Internet enabled
- these devices would be in the hands of regular people
- everybody would be able to create barcodes for free

What does this all mean? I don't know, you tell me. All I know is that it'll be something big.

3. Barcode readers tightly integrated in devices

To make the whole thing fly, ease-of-use is absolutely critical. If scanning a barcode takes too long, or it requires too many clicks, nobody will bother.

Therefore, barcode readers need to be tightly integrated in devices, and the user experience (time, # of clicks, product concepts, ...) needs to be optimized also for barcode scanning use. However, traditional camera use will naturally stay more important than barcode scanning. Let's not compromise that in the process.

4. Free barcode generators

2D barcodes shouldn't be owned by big companies and advertisers. Generating them should be free for all.

Currently, there are a couple of free barcode generators out there:
- DataMatrix generator by IDAutomation
- QR Code Generator by NFC Games
- Mobile Barcoder (Firefox plugin that creates QR Codes)
- Microsoft Live Barcode (defunct now, does anybody know why?)

However, some harmonization and nicer UIs would be welcome here.

Tip: if you want to encode a long URL into a barcode, you might want to use redirect services such as http://tinyurl.com/, or http://snipurl.com/. It makes the barcode smaller and easier to decode.

5. Avoiding fragmentation: emergence of global de-facto standards

Now, listen carefully. Unless we do something, fragmentation is threatening the whole 2D barcode ecosystem. There are already dozens of 2D barcode formats and their variants, and the number is increasing fast. There are various reasons for this:
- geographical/market differences
- different operator requirements
- lots of niche players with different agendas

Is this a problem? I think it is, namely for two reasons:

First, according to our end-user studies, the end-users get very disappointed, if the barcode reader does not recognize the barcode. And if the barcode landscape is fragmented, there is a high likelihood that the barcode is of incompatible type. But there is no way the end-users would understand this. They'd just think it's broken, and never try again.

Second, the more there are supported barcode formats, the longer the barcode scanning takes. This is why some proprietary solutions artificially restrict the barcode format, so that they'll know its type specifically, and the code gets recognized faster. Respectively, the general-purpose readers (such as the Nokia app) that support multiple barcode types are slower. Herein lies the dilemma - speed vs. flexibility.

So, we will need to agree on the standard(s). But this is not enough. In addition, we need to agree on the data types inside the standards. We still need to define the encoding for business cards, calendar entries, etc.

6. Avoiding patent wars

A couple of months ago, I participated an IPR training course. One of the key insights was:

"No new technologies will be adopted without commercially reasonable IPR environment for all the players in the value chain."

'nuff said.

Bonus Link: The Pondering Primate: Physical World Hyperlink Patent War Ahead?

7. Avoiding the "tragedy of anticommons"

This might sound a little theoretical, but with barcodes, we might have a situation that the scholars call the Tragedy of Anticommons. Wikipedia says:

The tragedy of the anticommons is a situation where rational individuals (acting separately) collectively waste a given resource by under-utilizing it. … This happens when too many individuals have rights of exclusion (such as property rights) in a scarce resource.
...

Greedy patent politics etc. might lead to underutilization of this great new technology.

8. Data Matrix and QR Code are currently the only feasible alternatives to emerge as de-facto standards

For various reasons, especially the ones stated above, I see the only feasible alternatives to be DataMatrix and QR Code. QR Code is already popular in Japan, and Data Matrix has momentum elsewhere. I just hope the tweaks that some companies make on top of the standards don't bring back the fragmentation problem.

I think we can let the market decide the de-facto standard(s), as long as the standard(s) will be open (= free from nasty patent hooks).

9. Unleashing user-driven innovation

Nobody knows what will be the most important use cases in the future. We must experiment, and let the users innovate.

As Charles Darwin taught us, evolution works in three steps: 1. diversify, 2. select, 3. amplify. Let's start with step one.

10. Enabling 3rd party innovation

I think this requires opening the APIs for developers at some point. Don't ask me about the details.

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Q&A

What do you think? Any questions, thoughts, opinions? Please comment, and continue the debate. I'll address your thoughts after my holidays, i.e. after Christmas.

Thank you for your attention.

Permalink |

Comments

Excellent news!

I know I'm asking about something you're likely not allowed to answer, but will all coming S60 and S40 phones have some version of this app built in, or will it remain a high-end feature?

Thanks for making the app available, can't wait to test it.

Have a nice holiday!

That's great, but... I would remind that there are more S60 3rd ed. phones out there, not to mention E-Series...

Exciting news, readers for the N73 and N80 via support can't wait.

I would like to add something to point 5. You are right the end consumer doesn't gain anything if there are 10 2d barcode types, that would be a very frustrating user experience.

But there is another important point: 2d barcodes that contain a URL a decentral, all the information required to get to the resource are contained in the URL. There are some providers whose business model it is to put ID's in QR-codes and Data-Matrix codes which require there server software to resolve the ID. They charge clients for that resolving mechanism. It is a.) absolutely unnecessary, use short urls and b.) it is the same frustrating user experience even if you have the QR code reader from nokia you wouldn't be able to do anything with a ID '10' from such a service provides since the data to resolve that entry is in some data center.

So I propose to add:

Encode URLs no IDs

Stan

Hi,
the thing is that unless there is a macro mode and autofocus in the camera, barcode reading cannot work very well. In Japan where 2D barcodes are already today ubiquitous, some products have even a separate macro lens in the camera for this purpose.

There are numerous 3rd party barcode reading applications available (not so many for S60 rd Edition though), so you can see for yourself. A good (and free) example is available at http://reader.kaywa.com.

Understood then the codes in our hemisphere have to have the size they need to be able to contain urls. I don't see a solution for ID's unless there is open number space for ID url mappings. There is not only kaywa there is upcode, mobile tag just to mention those two. There ID spaces are not shared. This violating the patent of neomedia anyways.

Encode urls: zero management and decentralized

Tommi,

What a great piece on the Physical World Connection

Stan, I agree absolutely. I don't see why it would be a problem to keep URLs short enough, so that they can be directly encoded in the barcode.

I completely understand why Jukka and Stan (and many others) root for encoding URLs in the datamatrix & QR-codes, yet I fear that this will not happen. The reason is simple: money.

It's very hard to make money from datamatrix & qr-codes if you don't control the routing. Companies such as UpCode & Mobiletag wont give up their spaces that easily unless they find another way of making money for their efforts.

The reason why QR is ubiqutous and succesfull in Japan is because it was introduced with the power of NTTDoCoMo behind it, nowhere else in the world will a force that powerfull be able to push the standard equally hard.

I love the work you're doing at Semapedia Stan (I would greatly appreciate talking to you about using ShotCodes, but that's another story). The question is, will the datamatrix & QR-code routing companies listen to your very viable request that people encode URLs? As I said, from a financial point of view I'm pretty sure they wont.

Hi there,
Great, interested to find out how your reader works:)

First: totally agree - go for the standards - QR Codes and Datamatrix (we support them already:). If this is set, half of the battle is won.

Second, convince the handset manufacturers and telcos to build in QR Code/Datamatrix Readers right into the phones - and please macro capable camera phones.
Telcos should back it anyway, as this will generate more data traffic. Follow the japanese example.

I also agree that URL is the best way to go, if size wouldn't be a problem - which it is no longer in Japan, but here it still is.

We use Short Code more and more when necessary, but we are still asked for it regarding size, e.g. in print, in small spaces (20218700). But - important - you have always an URL alternative (http://decode.kaywa.com/20218700) or .

If space is not an issue or if a service is turned via a more international public, we use either Short Code URL - can be read by any device - or normal URL depending on our client's wishes.

If you are looking for good statistics (which we can provide through our QR Code API), you certainly should choose the Short Code URL's, as on the URL you have to find out yourself which hits came through the 2D Barcode and which came by other means (typing the URL, Bookmark, SMS).

Dennis,

none of the mobile service providers have opted in such ID model too my knowledge is that right? I think it is counter intuitive to think that they would profit from that since a verizon customer could start viewing some cingular branded content and start to like it and develop a positive relationship with the brand. We have had mobile walled gardens for the longest time and take a look how far the western mobile internet developed, not much, hardly anybody is using it. Let it be open and flourish, there always ways to make money. Rethink businessmodels.

Content providers and marketers always try to reach the broadest audience possible why should they support a code standard that really limits them to small section of the market. It is in there interest to have as much exposure as possible. It might even hurt them if some users find out that these codes on those SONY music posters just don't work.

Lets keep it simple and not try corrupt the open standards we are so lucky to have.

Stan

QR (or any other open standard) has a much more consumer friendly business model as the business for QR lies in system integration (concepts) and not in “selling” the codes.

In my view codes should be like the internet, you don’t earn money with the internet, you earn money with the solutions you provide via the internet.

Propriotary technology is the greatest thread to the adoption of "object hyperlinking" getting mass attraction. So I totaly agree on what Stan and Tommi are saying.

Consumers (and publishers) will eventually force open standards upon the market. Remeber what happend to IE and their W3C complience for instance. The only thing is that it could be speed up if everyone had the same agenda, namely the consumer.

Stan, you say "rethink business models" and I think you are completely right. My question is though, how do you think companies such as UpCode & Mobitag (Abaxia) should make money on the R&D resources they put into developing the readers? The operators wont pay for it, nor will the handset vendors. Should consumers have to pay to get the reader on their phone? If yes, what would stop them from going to other readers? If it's free for everyone, what's the carrot for UpCode & Abaxia? I'm sure they're good at making mobile barcode readers, but will they be equally good at creating services for their platforms?

Believe me, I hate walled gardens and I completely agree that they don't work. But this isn't a walled garden, it's a question of an open standard that _sometimes_ is used in a closed way. As an additional negative problem consumers will not be able to see if this open standard is used correctly or not. This is guaranteed to damage their user experience.

I've been active in this business for a long time and we've looked at QR & datamatrix long & hard. I just don't see a future where a bunch of companies wouldn't mess it up for everyone. This is one of the reasons why we decided to got with ShotCodes, at least ShotCode users will always know what to expect.

Marc: You say "you don't earn money with the internet". In some ways you're right and in others I think you're not. First of all domain name registration will cost you money. So that's an area where I believe you're wrong. If you would see object hyperlinks as domain registrations the notion of asking money for them would be "justifiable".
If you see object hyperlinks as just hyperlinks, then you have a strong point. Yet this would mean that the makers of mobile barcode scanning tools should be compared to the browser makers for the mobile internet, after all, we make the (object)links clickable.

So should we look at our income model as that of a browser developer? It's a difficult one because the application is so simple, I haven't been able to find a good model there. I've looked at a open-source premium-support based model, yet what is there to support? Nor is there a market for adding and subtracting functions of the application. The scan is the key-component, any other functions are fun but pale in comparison to the importance of the scan. Should people pay for the reader? If yes the challenge of creation install-base increases at least ten-fold. If you have any ideas I'd love to hear them.

Dennis, you're saying that consumers will have problems recongnizing an "true" open standard and I agree, but I don't belive that introducing a new "standard" is the solution. In my point of view the solution is to join the movement and support and endorse the proper way to use the open standard. Companies that will misuse the open standard are underestimating their consumers and killing their own market. Like I said, the consumers will (eventualy) force the standard upon companies if they are not willing to comply themself.

I totaly agree that if a business model is aimed at -just- creating an barcode browser you're probably in deep sh*t. Like I said the most viable business model I see for companies in the barcode market is that of system intergrator. Everyone is making money of the fact that html and css are a standard. A (worldwide) standard for barcodes is in everyones benefit. The larger the userbase is the more interessting it is for companies to use barcode technology and thus creating more demand for system intergrators. All the effort should be put in gaining momentum and creating a large userbase.

I think that for instance kaywa is heading in the right direction by creating a browser and by providing solutions and concepts. The only thing is that kaywa should be blamed for misusing the open standard by creating a adding an own shortcode in the system. I don't think that this is a very big problem you can guess what will happen when someone tells advertisers that if they use plain url's instead of shortcodes anyone can scan their printed code and not just the (limited) users that use the kaywa reader.

Dennis,

you are asking:
>Should consumers have to pay to get the reader on their phone? If yes, what would stop them from going to other readers? If it's free for everyone, what's the carrot for UpCode & Abaxia?

Don't know what the carrot is for them, one thing is for sure there readers are great but their business practise of obvuscating what is open is nothing I like to see. They can sell there readers to handset manufactuerers, but they certainly can't earn money with those ID that nobody needs till eternity.

A customer would never have to buy a reader, the handset manufacturer or the service provider would do that and thereby enhancing the user experience . Customer pay for services and content but not explicitly for installed software on their fones, should they pay for the real players on those S60 devices??

Stan

Very interesting discussion, let me add my 2 cents :-)
Shortcode vs. URL ?
What about both ? There might be a need for both, Shortcode HAS some very valuable advantages over the URL.
Our goal @KAYWA is to introduce the various solutions (since we support all of them) to the customers with their respectives pros/cons so that they can decide which one they want to use.

@Marc:
> you can guess what will happen when someone
> when someone tells advertisers that if they use
> plain url's instead of shortcodes

Well... we tell them, but we also have quite a few pros arguments for the use of shortcode!

Marc, take the shortcode on your blog, there is a number underneath, in Switzerland anyone with a cell phone can send "QR {number}" to number 202 and he will get the URLs in a SMS.

Yes we provide a reader but we also provide solutions and concepts as you said!

Disclosure: my comment speak by itself but yes I work @KAYWA ;-)

@Jérôme "Shortcode HAS some very valuable advantages over the URL"

What are the advantages of shortcodes for the end user in your opinion?

"Marc, take the shortcode on your blog, there is a number underneath"

No, there's an URL underneath. Thats the whole point with shortcodes, they make something closed that is by nature open. With a slight modification the QR code on my blog is now open to all the QR code readers in the world. It would have been easier if kaywa used this method by default.

I really like the kaywa feed2mobile service. But it's a big shame that it's limited to kaywa readers only. I would say the larger the community around the service is the more you'll benefit in the end. For instance I wouldn't mind if an mobile ad was added to the service.

Jérôme, can you comment on availability of Kaywa reader for S60 3rd Edition based devices?

Jérôme you mention customer choice Re: supporting both embedded URLs or SMS a number to retrieve the URL.

In the case of embedded URLs the Kaywa Reader does not transcode the URL on the phone and allow you to launch the URL directly in your mobile browser. The Kaywa reader sends you to a Kaywa controlled mobile page where I then have to click on a link in order to launch the desired URL. In the case of sending a number via SMS to Kaywa, you obviously have an opportunity to capture not only the desired URL but the individual's mobile phone number as well.

In either case, you're uncomfortably and unnecessarily(IMHO) in the middle of the transaction. I understand the potential reasons for doing so but the privacy ramifications, lack of transparency and uniformity of experience disturbs me.

QR Codes were intended to be open. QR Code Readers should be open as well. Individual companies should not attempt to hijack or confound the experience. Yes, this may handicap some business models but I believe by respecting standards and ensuring a uniform user experience an even greater number of service models will flourish.

Hi there,
As CEO of Kaywa, I also like to join the discussion.

FEED2MOBILE encodes a URL, so it is readable by any QR Code Reader (N73, all japanese phones etc.).
And second it's also compatible with our SMS Service.
If you talk openess and reachability, I think you cannot be more open.

@Jukka
Series 60 3rd Edition is already on the way, but it needs to be signed which will a bit of time. But it will definitely come in early January.

Hi Roger, nice to see kaywa people joining the discussion.

Great to see that feed2mobile was changed over the weekend and that it now encodes an url instead of an shortcode! Though last friday it was still encoding a shortcode so when you talk about openess and reachability ...

The code on your blog is still using the shortcode and thus unfortunately not readable for users that use the quickmark (http://www.quickmark.com.tw/) reader for instance.

Anyway, good job guys, I whish everyone would head for openess and reachability.

Dear Marc,
Feed2Mobile was always URL-based as we considered it as a international as well as a local service. We didn't change it over the weekend;)

As for the codes on the blogs, we use currently Short Codes - that's right. If you have a Short Code like 2020400102, change it to http://decode.kaywa.com/2020400102, and then you can read it with any QR Code Reader (N73, Rokr E6 etc.)

PS: Smallness of the code is very important for the use of QR Codes in print. Please do not underestimate this fact, it's for many media companies the go/no go argument.

If we want QR Codes and/or Datamatrix to be used now (not in three years, when we all have autofocus and macro's) in print, the Short code approach will be something that we have to live with.

Now, it's a big difference for me, if you offer a Short Code only solution (which will not change when we have better phones like the Japanese do now), or if you use Short Codes when necessary and you are open in the future.

Our clients can choose, between
a) Shortcodes
b) Short Code URL
c) URL

We have used all three methods in projects and every approach has it's pro and contra.

Roger, let me quote Jérôme "Marc, take the shortcode on your blog, there is a number underneath". Until last week the generate QR code for feed2mobile was only a shortcode, not the url you descibe. So the service was not open and reachable for everyone, only for kaywa users. There was no way to generate the url, at least thats my experience.

Come on Roger, you know as well as everyone else that every cameraphone (even the worst on the market right now) will be able te decode a QR code with an url like http://tinyurl.com/us8hh so size is no argument when we talk about shortcode only or shortcode url solutions.

Shortcodes damage the user experience, shortcode urls are great. If we want to use QR codes now and not in three years we must get an large user base and not try to frustrate the system.

There is a misunderstanding and I guess that's a semantic issue...

> "Marc, take the shortcode on your blog, there is a
> number underneath". Until last week the generate
> QR code for feed2mobile was only a shortcode, not
> the url you descibe.

By "shortcode" I meant the number, and by "underneath" I meant "physically below" (and not encoded in the code)
Feed2Mobile has always been readable by ANY reader... I know it since I asked for it to be open.
As a matter of fact this whole discussion is our daily discussion (well there are other as well :-) with Roger. We keep on fighting about that and with the requirements of our customers (small QR Code being one of them)
Sure every reader even the worst one can read a code that has an URL encoded, but not if the code is less than say 1cm and that's a requirement for some "print media" company (Barcodes are useless for them if you need half a newspaper page to display it)

Nope, don't agree with you Tommi. If we were in 1995 maybe, but this is 2007.

The future is NFC.

Marc Re: "Shortcodes damage the user experience, shortcode urls are great. If we want to use QR codes now and not in three years we must get an large user base and not try to frustrate the system." - You are absolutely spot on!

Stefan Re: "If we were in 1995 maybe, but this is 2007." - Don't you think t here is room and need for both.

Roger Re: Your comment.

Thanks for joining the conversation Roger ...

...but how about my comment on the operation of the not really "Open" Kaywa reader - which i'll repeat below as you overlooked or ignored the point I was making.

You CAN NOT claim to have an "open" reader if embedded URLs that I and others generate need to be accessed through a mobile link on your site rather then directly launched from the reader. So stop the propoganda.

Disclaimer - My company Winksite.com has provided mobile siite building and RSS-to-Mobile since 2001. When we incorporated QR Code we purposely did NOT provide a reader.

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"In the case of embedded URLs the Kaywa Reader does not transcode the URL on the phone and allow you to launch the URL directly in your mobile browser. The Kaywa reader sends you to a Kaywa controlled mobile page where I then have to click on a link in order to launch the desired URL. In the case of sending a number via SMS to Kaywa, you obviously have an opportunity to capture not only the desired URL but the individual's mobile phone number as well.

In either case, you're uncomfortably and unnecessarily (IMHO) in the middle of the transaction. I understand the potential reasons for doing so but the privacy ramifications, lack of transparency and uniformity of experience disturbs me.

..and be clear.

When you hijack the experience and operation of openly created QR Codes for Kaywa's own objectives/purposes it confuses consumers and hurts adoption.

Great Points Dave!

I never understood what purpose the interceptor page serves. The user clearly and unmistakenly made the choice of following the hyperlink embedded in the code, why intercept with a page that adds no value to the user. You might want to inject advertisement on that page, but that will certainly create conflicts with the companies that you are linking to: try explaining to nokia or nike why you dont directly go to there content. And it is confusing to the user, he might end up going to the advertised URL and not the URL he intended to. It reminds me of those popup ads we had for years, users click on it just because they dont know better. It would be great if you could remove that page.

Re Stefan: Barcodes are great because they are at there best decentral - no resolution server besides DNS required -, they are free to produce and last but certainly not least are a visual clue to the users that there is something clickable available to them. There will be room for both as you can see in Japan.

Thanks for your arguments, guys.
It's good and important that we have this discussion.

@ David:
You CAN NOT claim to have an "open" reader.

It is an open reader in the sense that it let's you read any created QR Code - be it on our system or anywhere else. You can encode text, SMS and phone numbers without any problem and no server connection at all.

The in-between page has two purposes and we will work that it becomes clearer:

1) Quality Control: A lot of people do not make the difference between a mobile site and a normal website. The worst thing for a user is when he has a high phone bill.

Example: Several people play around with QR Codes and encoded their blog URL and put it on their site. The pages are sometimes up to 700KB which in money here would be CHF 7.-/$5 per accessed page on your phone bill. If this happens to you, you will quickly abandon the mobile web.

2) If you have a mobile site and you do not want the intermediary page, we can offer you our business solution. So in the Swisscom, Tamedia, Rossignol or Kerrang! examples, you will see that there is no intermediary page.

QR Code Experience: It doesn't confuse consumers nor does it hurt adoption IMHO. But apparently, the message of quality control (the same problem which the .mobi address wants to solve) which is for me a constant obsession is not clearly explained. We'll try to improve on this.

David,
Why didn't you want to provide a Reader? I think if there are more quality reader around the better it is. What were your reasons.

Great Conversation so far Roger,

I understand that the mobile web can be expensive if you don't have a suitable plan, but users should be aware of what there plan is and understand that it will cost them money. I think users clicking a QR code with a reader know pretty well what they are up to.

So issuing a warning on your part is the purpose of that page?

You guys are offering page transcoding right? Why not make it up to the code creator if he wants a transcoded version therefore going through a service of yours with a explicit URL which he potentially has to pay. For semapedia as example we don't need that since our pages are already getting perfectly transcoded by 7VAL. So need for that by default

Your second point is not an explanation but simply stating that you can buy? yourself a direct pass through link. Can you explain that?

Best,
Stan

Roger:

The Kaywa Reader is NOT open like Nokia's Bar Code Reader (on the N93) that sends you directly to the URL with NO in-between mobile page.

...and the QR Code Readers available on many handsets throughout Asia and elsewhere do not intercept as well (Many of which are provided by 3GVision who also builds Kaywa's reader - noticed when installing.) Kaywa clearly chose to build this "feature" in. This interception clearly makes the process NOT open and it DOES hurt adoption as it fragments both the experience and customer expections when scanning.

To be fair "in-between page" comment you make raises a good point but I believe that problem needs to be solved by many companies working together - i certainly do not feel companies should be paying Kaywa tolls/fees for direct access to scanned URLs.

...and by intercepting the URL then providing it on your mobile site as a link it does not accomplish quality control as you suggest as it could still link to a "large" mobile page. If you're suggesting that you transcode that resulting page as well then I have issues with that tactic as also. Many transcoders assume way too much power in hijacking mobile sites and replacing it with their own bastardized version. A version that is not even close to what a site owner wants to deliver or what their audience expects to receive. The issue is not that transcoders unilaterally strip away eye candy to save bandwidth - it is that they most times also remove user access to mobile-specific services on which many mobile businesses are based deliver the transcoded "Web" version of that URL instead. By default, transcoders censor those who provide a unique and/or useful mobile experience and provide no clear way to OPT-out of that.

...but I degress. Although I am extremely opinionated on this topic I do appreciate this forum to discuss it with you as I think anyone who is building services around QR Codes needs to think seriously about the big adoption picture and hear the voices of others. I'm certainly not out to make Kaywa look evil - I just think this is an extremely important issue for those who are embracing mobile phone code scanning.

Re: "Why didn't you want to provide a Reader? I think if there are more quality reader around the better it is. What were your reasons."

IMHO there is no future in the "Reader" business. Many great soutions already exist and ultimately phone manufacturers/carriers will preinstall "open" readers on handsets. This will lead to many new services flourishing around codes as has been the case in Japan, Asia and elsewhere. While many of us in Europe and North/South America are waiting impatiently for that to happen I think it is foolish for a single company to think they can create a lasting market around a proprietary closed solution in a space where standards and openness is a requirement for success.

Well, I guess I first address Stan and need a bit more time for David (bringing my kids to bed in a minute).

> So issuing a warning on your part is the purpose of that page?

Yes, it is, but I agree it's not obvious today. We will improve on it that this becomes clearer.

For history: We have a mobile version of our blogs and as we have many outside links (which are the basics of blogging), we had to warn the user before going on a page which wasn't made for a mobile environment. We only did this in late 2004, as people complained that following the links their phones crashed or that they did wait eternally for... nothing or that they had heavy bills. I am myself considering as a user and I really needed this feature to be sure that my phone bill is not exploding (this was before the introduction of the flat rate).

As for the second point:
All services by us are mobile per default, and do not have an in-between page. Use Feed2Mobile with any possible QR Code Reader (N73,Rokr etc.) as well as our Kaywa Reader and everything will work perfectly.

As for any other mobile site, we can take away the intermediate site when we
1) know that this site has a working mobile version
2) there is an agreed price between the site owner and us to do so.

We do encourage strongly that companies like Nokia, Motorola, Sony-Ericsson, Samsung etc. preinstall a free reader on their phones as this is clearly the best possible scenario.

We hope that this is coming quickly, but to drive it, it needs small companies who really put money, work and energy into it. That these companies need a business case to do so, seems logical.

Would our attitude be, wait till the big ones do it, believe me, it would never happen. It needs Stan, David, Tommi, Charlie and our humble company to put these things on the table.

David,
Just want to respond to your latest part for time reasons (it's late):

IMHO there is no future in the "Reader" business. Many great soutions already exist and ultimately phone manufacturers/carriers will preinstall "open" readers on handsets.

That's exactly what we want too that phone manufacturers preinstall open readers. I have no problem with that:)

This will lead to many new services flourishing around codes as has been the case in Japan, Asia and elsewhere. While many of us in Europe and North/South America are waiting impatiently for that to happen I think it is foolish for a single company to think they can create a lasting market around a proprietary closed solution in a space where standards and openness is a requirement for success.

We would never have the idea to create a lasting market with the Kaywa Reader as QR Code Reader only, that's exactly why we choose open standards and didn't head for a proprietory code.

As long as we create URL's (and every of our short codes can be changed into an URL), these codes can be read by any open QR Code or Datamatrix Reader on this planet. On the other hand, any QR Code or Datamatrix Code can be read by the Kaywa Reader.

So spending some money now by trying it out with Kaywa does advantage you in the future:
- you can now start by using the codes you think are appropriate for your purpose: Short Codes, URL Short Codes or URL's.

It will always work and be compatible with other Readers now and in the future (Short Codes then being transformed into Short Code URL's). The quicker the european handset manufacturers pick up the trend, the better it is for everyone.

All services by us are mobile per default, and do not have an in-between page.

A great number of other companies also provide services that are mobile by default. Yet the QR Codes generated for these mobile sites/pages when scanned by the Kaywa Reader sends them to your "in-between" page (unlike other readers like Nokia's and DoCoMo's that launches the URL directly upon scanning.) As such, Kaywa's reader delivers a fragmented experience and confuses consumers. When scanning an open format like QR Code the result should be uniform across readers. Go build your own code format if you want to mess around. Please reconsider messing with a standard.

As for any other mobile site, we can take away the intermediate site when we 1) know that this site has a working mobile version 2) there is an agreed price between the site owner and us to do so.

So I ask you... How is this open? Not only are you fragmenting the market but to opt out of your insanity people have to pay a toll to Kaywa.

It appears to me you are transmitting an illness then selling a cure.

(Harsh for sure - but it conveys the intensity of my opinion.)

I've raised several issues but I fail to see clear responses from you. Be that as it may I appreciate you having this conversation with me. On that note (and before I look crazier then i already do) I'm signing out of this thread - but more then happy to discuss with you offline.

It appears to me you are transmitting an illness then selling a cure.

I couldn't agree with you more David.

Don't forget one thing, it's not important how you sell a service it's important how users precieve and experience it.

David, Marc
I understand your arguments, however I think they have to be seen in perspective.

1) We need to agree on what standards we agree on. I strongly believe the best is QR Code.
It's a) an open code and
b) it's well established in Japan and
c) handset manufacturers seem to go this route as well.

Do you agree on this till now?

2) To drive it, it needs Readers. As making and testing a Reader costs a lot of time, energy and money, we have - in non vertical markets like Japan - two solutions.
a) the handset manufacturers come out with a pre-installed reader which costs are included in the price of the handset. Case of Nokia, Motorola and so on. And let's hope that all the coming handsets have pre-installed QR Code Reader's.

b) private companies invest in Reader's, but they have to recoup on their investment, hence they a) either put out the reader at a price or b) they find another business model. Case of Kaywa.

=> ba will never work as I don't see many people paying for something they don't understand yet.

=> bb comes out as the only solution then unless you come up with another one.

As long as the private company doesn't make it impossible to access the open code and therefore making it useless, I believe this is acceptable.

The perspective is: it will boost the whole QR story - and that's my point.

a) Companies are ok to pay the price to get a direct access as they a) have put effort in a mobile page and b) they see the value that QR Codes are bringing to their business and c) they are interested in the statistics.

b) The big handset manufacturers see the importance of the market, they don't want the small companies to get too much market share, and they will come out quicker with free barcode readers.

In the end, there will be enough free readers out there, so that a healthy competition can start.

To finish: in Japan the whole thing was driven by the "vertical" telcos which could impose what has to be on the handsets. It served them anyway - it creates 3 times more data traffic. That's an ideal scenario! Here it's all more difficult and more fragmented.

So we can lean back and wait for it and think how ideal the situation in Japan is, and Kaywa waited two years and nothing happend, or we can act upon it.

PS: If a company with a mobile site does think they get anything out of it, that we have one code and not a fragmented code market than they should act upon it as well by helping these companies by what they make possible.

I could imagine that - as more private companies joining the QR Code bandwagon - we could agree on serving each other.

PS: And I am still thinking that the QR Code letting you access a non-mobile-optimised site is much worse and much more problematic for a first time user, than the warning of the intermediate page respectively the direct access of a well made mobile site.

Hi, Nokia N73 version is now available in the Download! application.

Roger,

Re: 1) I prefer QR Code as a standard over Datamatrix. That being said, although I prefer a single standard independent companies have every right to experiment with and make available alternative code formats. The marketplace, their sales efforts, and the specific needs they satisfy will determine if their proprietary end-to-end solutions have commercial merit.

Re: 2a) The mass adoption necessary to make mobile bar code services a success will come when readers are bundled with handsets.
My issues with the Kaywa Reader revolves around the process by which it handles scanned QR Codes and the opt-out mechanisms Kaywa provides.

Rather then launch the URL directly (as open readers do) an individual is forced to an "in-between page" hosted on your servers that offers both "Select Content" and a link to the desired mobile URL.

IMHO readers that scan a standardized and open format should strive to operate in a standard and expected way. It should be as simple as:

Step 1: Person recognizes a QR code on printed materials
Step 2: Person scans code with reader
Step 3: Reader resolves URL and directly launches the mobile URL (in the phones browser)

I understand your specific business case for doing otherwise but for those QR Codes encoded elsewhere that do not link to Kaywa client content Kawya should step out of the way and do no harm.

A. I object to Kaywa's servers creating a bottleneck to URL's encoded elsewhere but scanned with the Kaywa Reader. I experienced this today several times and was denied access to the mobile destination site do not not being able to access your "in-between page" where the link is accessible.

B. I object to Kaywa's servers transcoding content without permission of content owner while offering no clear way for a mobile site/service to opt out of that transcoding queue.

C. I object to the toll/fee you impose to opt-out of the Kaywa "in-between page."

PS: If a company with a mobile site does think they get anything out of it, that we have one code and not a fragmented code market than they should act upon it as well by helping these companies by what they make possible. I could imagine that - as more private companies joining the QR Code bandwagon - we could agree on serving each other.

This is an admirable sentiment but how sincere are you?

Perhaps a test...

I respectfully request Kaywa provide at no cost, clear and direct passage to the URLs available at our domain without interception to an "in-between page" or transcoding of any kind.

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Cheers,
David Harper
Founder, Winksite.com

Dear David,

To the objections:
A) That's strange and not intended at all. We certainly do not restrict anyone going on a site. We have the in-between page yes. So please tell us immediately by sending an email to reader@kaywa.com, when you think this happens.

B) Transcoding. We are very happy if owners of blogs are adopting Feed2Mobile. It's a straight-forward service, and in that sense different to yours.

On the other hand we look at it like any other RSS Reader site, be it Bloglines, Rojo etc. It's the reader who chooses to read what he wants - now also on his mobile. This way I can now personally read the blogs that interest me. If this is problem - it's a problem for all online feed readers.

C) As said, the development of a QR Code and Datamatrix Reader for a vast array of phones is no easy task - it needs a lot of resources, expert know-how from 3GVision's and our side. Without the in-between page there wouldn't be any incentive for us or any other commercial company to use QR Code. We welcome Jukka's Reader and we only think this is healthy.

Sincere we are and we do our best to combine openess and a business model.

As for your request, I cannot simply say yes or no as you can understand. But we can talk, if there is any solution where we can help each other mutually.

With my sincerest respects to the great work you are doing.
Best regards
Roger

Hi Roger.

There are issues with transcoding services (having nothing to do with rss to mobile.)

This we should discuss.

As for your request, I cannot simply say yes or no as you can understand. But we can talk, if there is any solution where we can help each other mutually.

Fair enough. :)

Let's speak in early January.

In the meantime, I wish you and yours a Happy Holiday & New Year.

With respect and good cheer,
David

David,
I have an idea. Let's discuss it via email.
Best
Roger

I didn't find your email. Mine is roger.fischer [at] kaywa [dot] com.

Again just cutting into your interesting thread, sorry..

Check this out:
http://blogs.s60.com/seeintos60/2006/12/2d_barcode_reader_for_nokia_n7.html

We're your guests Jukka.

...and of course Tommi's. :)

Wow - what an insightful debate, thanks everybody!

Vegard: I think the barcode reader app should be preinstalled in all devices with good-enough camera (2+ megapixels, macro mode, autofocus). Let's see what we can do.

Stan: Good point, I should have added:

11. Encode URLs (or ShotCode URLs or TinyURLs or whatnot) which can be read by any reader, not IDs which work only for specific readers.

Stefan: I believe that NFC and 2D barcodes can coexist. Barcodes have their unique benefits: you can't print RFID tags yourself for free, can you?

On my N80 the QuickMark QR Code Reader works much better than the Nokia one, it grabs the code in 1-2 sec, with the Nokia app sometimes it takes 10 sec to get the lock and scan the same QR code from TFT screen...

I.G.: So it's good to have a choice of readers available right? :) But seriously, we are of course not happy about that. Thanks for the comment, we'll check what can be done to improve. Quickmark web site is not alive right now..

I.G.: now that Quickmark site is up, I didn't find anything to try? There is a Nokia 3250 version, but it gives HTTP 404 error.

Jukka, I've uploaded the zipped Quickmarks sis to my server, you can download it from http://d2k.hu/ig/S60v3/QuickMark_Nokia3250_v3_1_Signed.SIS.zip

Btw, looks like the QuickMark app is better when the dotsize is smaller, I mean 2x2px dots in the barcode on an average 100dpi laptop screen (e.g. http://d2k.hu/ig/contact.html ). When the dot size is bigger like 3x3px, the difference is much smaller between the 2 apps. On the "viewfinder" the picture is darker and more noisey in the Nokia app.

Btw 2, the QM app supports the phonebook registration (MECARD:) format ( http://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/english/service/imode/make/content/barcode/about/s2.html ) so it's one step to import a business card into Contacts if the barcode contains this format ( MECARD:N:Firstname,Lastname;EMAIL:... etc. ) With the Nokia app I guess I have to encode a VCARD then save it in the the Barcode reader and import it with Contact. I wasn't able to try it because the online QR encoders stop at the first line end and the VCARD format is multiline...

Jukka, I've uploaded the zipped Quickmarks sis to my server, you can download it from http://d2k.hu/ig/S60v3/QuickMark_Nokia3250_v3_1_Signed.SIS.zip

Btw 2, the QM app supports the phonebook registration (MECARD:) format ( http://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/english/service/imode/make/content/barcode/about/s2.html ) so it's one step to import a full business card into Contacts if the barcode contains this format ( MECARD:N:Firstname,Lastname;EMAIL:... etc. ) With the Nokia app I guess I have to encode a VCARD then save it in the the Barcode reader and import it with Contact. I wasn't able to try it because the online QR encoders stop at the first line end and the VCARD format is multiline...

QM supports VCARD as well. You can easily create a VCARD on http://activeprint.org/codes.php, just choose "data" and paste the desired vcard. Just don't try to put to much data in the vcard or else it will get too big to scan (depening on you're megapixel camera ofcourse).

Check out 'News' here...see who is involved...re: MC2--'Mobile Code Consortium,' which is starting up to encourage 2D code standards worlwide...it's about time.
http://www.gavitec.com/

Marc Fontein: Yes the Quickmark reader can save a full VCARD. The Nokia app is useless in this regard, can't do anything but allows to select and save the phone numbers and email addresses separately, no way to save the vcard in one step into Contacts.

@I.G.: thanks for the download! I tried it with Nokia N75 and it works really bad. But thats's probably because there is no macro mode (which N80 has). Your comment about viewfinder brightness sounds strange, Nokia reader uses automatic exposure which should always be best choice. About DoCoMo's business card etc. formats, we are hesitant to add those kind of features since they are proprietary. Vcard support would be a good idea though.

@Anonymous: good to see action in this field, but I would like to see more support for open code standards. Somehow I doubt that's on the agenda for this particular consortium. I might be too skeptic.. Anybody like to comment?

At Jukka,
I totally agree with you, we all should support open standards. That's the first step needed.

I responded to anonymous with an open letter on my blog:
http://mobile.kaywa.com/qr-code-data-matrix/open-letter-to-the-mobile-codes-consortium--mc2.html

I hope for an equally good conversation as here.

I agree that saving VCARD directly to Contacts would be more important than some proprietary format. Currently no way to do it with the Nokia Barcode Reader because one can't even export decoded text from the app into the file system.

I.G., actually you can export the text but at the moment the file goes to a system folder and cannot be used by the (average) user. Copying to S60 clipboard from the Barcode reader will be implemented in a future version, you have my word on that :)

I am not sure if this helps discussion, but there is already working solution of barcodes..

http://www.upc.fi/en/upcode/suitablephones/

they do change for commercial uses though

Hi,
If you are interested to know more about Qode, please see Mr. Jeff Mould’s blog.
He’s the President and CEO of Announce Mobile.
http://blog.announcemobile.com/

My favorite blog posts:
Why Qode?
http://blog.announcemobile.com/2007/04/17/why-qode/
2D codes…again
http://blog.announcemobile.com/2007/04/19/2d-codesagain/
Qode - an indepth look at the technology
http://blog.announcemobile.com/2007/04/21/qode-an-indepth-look-at-the-technology/
Why Qode is valuable to Hip2D?
http://blog.announcemobile.com/2007/04/22/why-qode-is-valuable-to-hip2d/

Tommi 2nd, yes UpCode is one of the applications listed on the Mobile Codes site (http://83.145.232.112/scan.htm)

@dlethe01 quit the spam dude ...

Marc Fonteijn, kind of a one sided view if you do not include all forms of 2D readers.

It is not spam if someone is trying to let their voice be heard.

This is almost like reading Scott Schaffer's blog.

One sided.

NeoMedia’s mobile code reading platform qode is making tremendous strides in Europe as well as here in North America. With a great showing at CTIA, tremendous media coverage from the New York Times, and their involvement with the Mobile Codes Consortium, qode is on its way to becoming the code-agnostic universal reader with its soon to be released upgrade version capable of reading UPC, Aztec, Datamatrix, and QR codes.

Best,
Sean

http://streetstylz.blogspot.com/

In defense of Marc, the topic of the post is the "barcode manifesto" and not an announcement platform. Correct me if i am wrong, Qcode is not an open standard and is encoding an ID and not an URL, you might justify that with the fact that phone cameras are not able to read super small QRcodes as they do in japan. Who needs those Qcode's, if you want to just encode an ID use regular barcodes or something that looks similar, customers will recognize that at once. QR codes and Datamatrix are simple and effective, an URL in the code is all you need, why should device/content negotiation be done on the phone or neomedia's server?? Neomedia is trying to establish itself as a thoughtleader and innovator in that space but fact is that the technology is already in place, Nokia is shipping the latest phones with readers already. There are tons of readers available from quickmark.

The Internet relies on openness and decentralization and not on closedness and centralization. I personally dont understand why somebody is wasting time and money on an inferior, outdated and closed technology. Please start something exciting and new.

Stan,
You are right on the money with your comments. Qode is not a barcode reader per se. Its a patented process to read a unique ID encoded in Aztec codes. And as you point out it is a closed process, where the marketer has to pay NEOM to have their Aztec codes activated, and then through the Unique ID in those codes that become activated, NEOMs back end server will then send you the URL.

That is quite worthless to the individual user who wants to put a code on their web blog, or someone who wants to code their business card, or any of the other individual applications that dont involve marketing.

But you are preaching to the choir when you try to explain that to the latest posters here. They believe NEOM owns the bridge to all 2d code technology as shareholders of NEOM, and you cant explain anything different to them, because they are totally closed minded.

As to Marcs reference to the initial post being spam, it was exactly that. Posting links to some web blog, while not offering anything to the ongoing discusion is spam, and these posters know that, because the site they normally post on has the same rules for spam. On that site you arent even allowed to promote your own blogs, without offering discussion on the topic.

But they have made it an agenda to attempt to force their views and opinions upon any blog that discusses this very important topic of 2D codes and the need for open standards as opposed to closed processes.

There is a need for both to an extent, but as has been discussed here, the truely open standard will be the one that goes mainstream.

Also worth noting is the information on Nokias beta site, that states their requirements for recommending different code readers. Notice that Qode was excluded because it does not meet those requirements mentioned listed on the LEARN tab of that site which states.....

"What are the criteria in selecting the recommended mobile code readers on this site?
We have selected readers that: 1) support the open (i.e. no proprietary elements included) Datamatrix standard, 2) support at least the web address (URL) data type, 3) detect codes without the aid of any network server, 4) are available online for free-of-charge download for non-commercial use.

We’ll be happy to add more providers to the list if these criteria are met.

I agree very much with Stan and I am sad to see that Tommis original manifesto theses get ignored and overridden with innuendo service and technology advertisements such as

"NeoMedia’s mobile code reading platform qode is making tremendous strides in Europe as well as here in North America. With a great showing at CTIA, tremendous media coverage from the New York Times, and their involvement with the Mobile Codes Consortium, qode is on its way to becoming the code-agnostic universal reader with its soon to be released upgrade version capable of reading UPC, Aztec, Datamatrix, and QR codes."

which is at best misinformation. Actually this is not innuendo at all, it's blatantly capitalizing on the fact that this blogpost has been eaten up by a discussion which ignores most of the points made by the post itself. Please refer to points 5,6,7, and 8 of Tommis manifesto for an already existing discussion and solution of why we need open standards and why only by decentralization we can foster and encourage innovation.

I'd say, let's keep it real and come up with great services, content and connections between physical and virtual!

Mr. Stan Wiechers and Mr. Alexis,
Semacode and Semapedia have tried to mislead readers/bloggers (see recent blog). First, it is not Qcode but Qode. Mr. Jeff Mould has clearly explained what Qode is (see his blog posts). Furtheremore, please contact Mr. Jeff Mould if you think that your solution is better or can do everything Announce Mobile needs it to do...
http://blog.announcemobile.com/2007/04/23/resolution-vs-static/
http://blog.announcemobile.com/2007/04/24/this-is-funny/

@dlethe01 why should they contact Jeff, Stan isn't trying to sell anything in my view? This is an open topic in which everyone can respond. Does Jeff really need the traffic on his blog that he can't reply here? It's rather strange that you are his voice in this story... but lets not get carried away and get back to the main topic. There has been a long discussion about closed / proprietary solutions, just read the thread again.

Right on Marc. Who cares what the CEO of a start up company thinks. Does Jeff Mould have the power and influence to get Qode embedded in cell phones? I think what the people at Nokia(who do not support Qode on their website) have a little more influence in getting software embedded then Jeff Mould. So although he found something that works for his business model, its irrelevent to the discussion here as to what it will take to get this product mainstream. If you ask 100 CEOs what is better for them you probably would get 100 different answers.

Dlethe01 and his cohorts found an ally in a CEO and as he stated in another forum he has sent the above message to over 100 people in the industry as well as mentioning in that forum to his cohorts that its time to bring the fight to those of you who disagree with him and his cohorts.....LOL. The link is below if your interested which you probably arent. The 2nd link is his admission that he is spamming the blogs to promote Jeff Moulds blog site. Ask him to send that message to NOKIA and see what kind of a response he gets. They are the people who can get mass market interest by embedding the code readers in the phones software. Their opinion matters, not a marketing company who found a solution they are happy with using a closed system that meets their specific needs.

And dont worry about Dlethe01 discussing the issues, he wont do that, thats why he is trying to use Jeff Mould to do the discussion for him. He will accuse you of liing or being decietful, but ask him who told another blogger that NEOM also owned GLASS a product owned by HP labs in England?

http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=19047220

http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=19068983

Bruce A Hart (brewskih) ... You still living in Florida or Texas?

We should get in touch and catch up. Maybe grab some lunch.

Great to see Announce Mobile team up with NeoMedia and license their qode platform.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070424/nytu047.html

The new Universal qode reader is almost ready ;)

Michael


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