S60 Open to new features

The saved password feature is great. That sure was a big let down with the current browser. But there are still a few obvious missing features that i don't see in this article:

- Multiple window browsing. I can't believe that any modern web browser could not support multiple windows. This is such an essential feature. It's all the more frustrating that Web does actually support multiple windows since pop up windows open in new windows but for some reason it doesn't let the user manually open a new window or open a bookmark in a new window. As long as there is no support for multiple window browsing, i'll have to stick with Opera Mobile.
- Still no sign of Page Up / Page Down shortcuts that would make reading text on the web browser so much more easier.

Hopefully, these features are there and the reviewer just didn't notice them.

Do you know how we'll be able to ugrade to the new version? Will that require just a software installation, a firmware ugrade or will we have to buy a new phone (i don't really fancy paying £400 for a new web browser).

link to the article

http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/ctia_2006_fall/index.php?p=nb

Good news.
But we are really interesting in upgrade of existing devices. Will be or not?

For starters, it would be nice not to run out of memory after visiting two or three sites on the 3rd ed S60 browser. I think it's just a bit premature to go on and on about the features when the basics aren't even there.

Oh, and I would call "even more glorious than before" the overstatement of the week. :) But maybe the next gen of 3rd ed devices takes things forward again...

Yea, will this be an update for current S60 v3 devices?

> I would call "even more glorious than before" the overstatement of the week. :)

Heh :)

I must say again that this blog is not a paid Nokia ad, just my humble thoughts and opinions. As always, I like to hear if you disagree with my hallucinations. Maybe I've had so bad experiences in the past with mobile browsers, so that the current browser in my Nokia N73 feels - to me - quite glorious. I haven't suffered too much from memory running out.

I already love the S60 web browser (minus the crashes/restarts/memory issues), but this really looks phenominal. Any ballpark idea on when we can expect to be using this on our phones? Keep up the good work!

-Eric

Tommi,

Can you pass up the food chain to the teams that we really, really would love the new 2.0 in a future update to our existing S60v3 devices? :)

The RSS reader alone is such a necessity -- the existing one is really not up to par. The biggest problem it has is that you can't do offline viewing -- whoever designed it must not travel in subway tubes a lot, where you lose signal. :)

Thanks!

Tommi, you got that one right. Ideally, the best thing about S60 blogs is exactly that they aren't paid ads, but real people's opinions - let's keep it that way. Also being lucky enough to be exposed to new mobile toys daily I know how easy it is to get carried away with new cool stuff. But also sometimes it feels like everybody is just obsessed with new features, WOW, and the latest thing. Concerning the features, the S60 platform is moving forward with such amazing steps. I do hope that the reliability, speed and usability of the platform won't be sacrificed in the process. But enough of off-topic ranting. :)

i'm fairly happy with the e61's built in web browser. i've never experienced any memory depletion.

will it be available to current 3rd ed. devices?Or is it for FP1 phones.Provide them for this current phones as well.

Hey Tommi!

Am I to assume that with the new web browser that they will get rid of the services option on s60 v3 devices?

"The biggest and most important change is that the web browser is no longer a separate application from the WAP browser; they're integrated now. You can view WAP 1.0, WAP 2.0, xHTML, and HTML pages all in one place."

Darla: yep. Just one default browser. Which is great :)

All of you asking availability to current S60 3rd ed. devices: the browser team listened your comments sympathetically, but the answer is no. Sorry... The new browser is only available for S60 3rd Edition feature Pack 1 based devices.

But I think you raised a valid point. I think we could consider more often releasing individual applications separately from new platform editions / feature packs. I'll try to spread this idea...

Does this version of the browser allow page authors to supply designs specifically for mobiles (that override the default or screen stylesheets the browser normally applies) via media="handheld" (in HTML) and @media handheld (in CSS)? I still think it was a real shame the first version didn't.

Damn, I should have added that to my wishlist! :P

Frankly, what's the point of spending a fortune buying a smartphone running a supposedly "open" operating system if you can't even install new versions of the bundled applications?

So whenever an application is upgraded, we're supposed to shell out another £300 to buy another phone altogether just like with "dumb" phones? This is a joke. Third party application developers allow their applications to be ugraded without forcing you to buy a new phone everytime, why can't Nokia do that with their own apps?

Sorry about ranting like that but i'm a bit pissed off here to say the least. Or does this means that we'll be able to upgrade our 3rd edition phones to 3rd edition FP1? If that's the case, that'd be super cool.

Well, with built-in apps there might be more technical dependencies etc, which could make back-porting not feasible or not worth the trouble.

I can't really comment this issue any further - let's just say I heard your feedback (thanks!) and I'll try to influence to the situation at least in my own unit.

It might be technically possible to back-port a built-in application to work in an older edition of S60. Then you have the problem that in most devices the application resides in ROM, and thus cannot be updated with a SIS package (but would need a new firmware upgrade). There are exceptions too, like my Nokia 5500 which doesn't have the new browser by default (comes in memory card).

Jukka: really good point. I didn't even think about that problem...

Weel, firmware upgrades are easy now when you can do it yourself..

Any hint of FTP support in the web browser?

I'm still dumbfounded that Nokia can put Wifi on these devices but not offer any way to browse Windows shares. There is not even an FTP client! Building an ftp client into the browser would certainly be better than nothing.

The current safari browser is downloadable for the 3250, so why can't they provide this new one for all 3rd edt phones? If they think I'm gonna buy that brick N95 then they are beyond wrong. I feel cheated by Nokia: there isn't really any open-source part to the browser anyway...

This sucks - Web 2.0 not being available for current S60v3 devices when they are only less than 6 months old.

Other smartphone manufacturers treat their users better than Nokia. Nokia - do us a first and let FP1.0 be available for current S60v3 phones. I seriously doubt there are any hardware limitations.

As some one said - whats the point of Symbian being 'open' if the phone manufacturers are cheap skates. Really, Nokia won't be losing much money from people not upgrading from 60v3 to the next gen of 60v3 FP1 phones - not many people will change their phone so quickly.

First, thanks for an informative blog!

Now, I bought a Nokia N73 which is overall outstanding. It is revision 1 though, and in some situations it shows.

Now to my point: Nokia should care about its early adopters. Especially since the company has choosen a path where its trying to compete using extensive functionality, advanced phones etc.

I am not willing to pay $650 dollars to be Nokia's Beta tester! If revision 1 isnt perfect - fine, but make it possible to upgrade the software! Nokia has done more advanced things than that.

Only making this application *upgrade* available with a new phone is not going get Nokia more handset sales.

Early adopters either paid £350 for their sim free phones ~3 months ago or are now locked into a 12 month contract. They will not be potential customers for a good while yet.

All this policy does is annoy Nokia's exisitng user base & will probably make them look for a true Smartphone in 12 months time.

As has been voiced above, it really is laughable to market this as an open platform smartphone, & then try & tell us the ONLY company that can NOT provide updated applications is Nokia itself.

Nokia provides plenty of stand alone applications for download. Some of them (like SMS_Accel.sis) are even capable of modifying the existing built in apps.

I hoped Nokia wouldn't ape the underhand tactics of M$ or Apple. I'd have hoped they would have higher standards.

Please stop whining... :) We heard you already, and - believe or not - we are not evil corporate trolls that enjoy making evil things to innocent people who buy our stuff...

As said, the built-in apps often have technical dependencies etc. In this case, I think that backporting would require extra work, at least in testing etc. And extra work would cost extra money, and take resources away from the real development. You wouldn't want that, would you?

But hey... here's a wild idea: would you "early adopters" accept a not-fully-tested version, that might have some rough edges?

I'm not sure is this idea any good, but let's play around with the thought :)

hi tommi,

" here's a wild idea: would you "early adopters" accept a not-fully-tested version, that might have some rough edges?"

are talking about the last firmware update for E70 ? ;-)

seriously, who give a shit if a browser (or same kind) is beta :
1/ it is not a strategic application
2/ all releases are in fact kind of beta whatever.

it would be very "frustrating" (i am polite) if few weeks old softwares would not be upgradable.

Yet, it really looks (on the screenshots on Scoop) like the new browser runs on a current 3rd phone: just look at the E-series test theme they use...

Okaay, we're stopping with the whining :-p ;-)

If you're talking about the possibility of us trying out the new browser in a totally unsupported way? ...Well, I'm guessing most of us would bite your hand off for the chance ;-)

As fredouil points out, most browsers are effectively in continual beta anyway. We'd accept the rough edges.

If you guys wanted feedback on how the new browser works on current S60v3 (feature pack '0'?) phones, then you'd have a huge user base of beta testers who'd love to help.

But even if we're just talking about an unsupported & possibly glitchy version - it's better than no version at all.

Keep us posted on this inspired idea ok?
:-)

If the browser was an application like any other ie. visible in Application manager then this might be possible. That is, if the Browser 2.0 was back-ported to original 3rd Edition. Quite many ifs, and there are probably a couple more still.

I should agree with tommi's saying... Porting in older versions may require time that is not available. Apart from any programming difficulties , some newer S60 phones like N93 are based on a new , quite better hardware platform .
N95 seems to be based on the same platform ( way to many features look alike) .
Trying to optimize performance on "older" S60 phones so they can provide all the new features without a glitch may not be so easy...
Although 6630's platform lasted all the way to N80 and all the 3rd edition devices so far with only the addition of a seperate display controller in N80 and E60 (from N90's experience we see that "poor old" 1710 doesn't like the new screen resolution)

Tommi,

As an E61 user I'm really interested in this new browser, almost a month has past since your original post. Do you know if the new 2.0 browser will be released for the E61 or other E-Series devices? Also do you know if the 1.0 browser will support any kind of plugin for Flash Lite 2.0?

Is there going to be a release of Flash Lite 2.0 for The current E-Series devices?

Thanks for your time,
Dave in Canada

Dave,

A semi-official Nokia statement somewhere said: "No, the browser is only available for S60 3rd Edition feature Pack 1 based devices."

As far as I know, that is the truth. Of course, if something miraculous happened, I'd let you know.

About Flash lite support, I don't know - I haven't followed the situation lately.

I am very disappointed hearing that my N71 which cost me 430+ Euro in July 2006 won’t be supported by new Nokia Web Browser.

Had I knew it before I would have preferred a different non smart-phone solution (since smart-phone is all about easy software upgrading) and certainty (from now on honestly) a different brand.

P.’S
Tommi let them know that with such an attitude they managed to loose a loyal customer from the Nokia 8850 days!
:(

Please stop whining... :)

*** Tommy,

With all due respect but I don't think people whined half of what they should've after being left out in the cold with this browser issue. It's not even so much the lack of a browser upgrade path for the "old" devices (I slashed 400€ for the E-61 3 weeks ago; is that old!?) but much more your companies lack of respect for existing customers. The S60 3d edition users are already suffering from a lack of available applications. If your company can't even have the decency to take care of their own user base... who is!?

We heard you already, and - believe or not - we are not evil corporate trolls that enjoy making evil things to innocent people who buy our stuff...

I don't know if you enjoy it but I can only note you're doing it never the less...

As said, the built-in apps often have technical dependencies etc. In this case, I think that back porting would require extra work, at least in testing etc. And extra work would cost extra money, and take resources away from the real development.

I'm amazed you even dare to think this let alone say it here: "require extra work "? "extra money"? What the h*** is the units purchase price for then!?

Basically, I paid for a product that has been beaten to obsolesce 3 weeks after the purchase by its manufacturer because they don't have the money and resources available to provide after-sales support for the device.

Here's an idea you could maybe pass on: Instead of releasing cardboard boxes full of "new" models each month, spend the time and money doing things right with the existing products.

P.S. Anybody interested in purchasing a 3 weeks old E61? Still under guarantee, purchase receipt available, not locked... :-(

Nobody & Zoran: go listen the podcast by Ganesh Sivaraman from the browser team:
http://blogs.s60.com/voiceofs60/2006/11/podcast_12_ganesh_sivaraman_we.html

If I remember correctly, he said something about them currently investigating the options to release the new version of the browser to current devices. Not sure will it be feasible or not, though.

*** Thank you for the link, but if 400€ can only buy a 'maybe', 'we'll see' and 'probably', the issue is still inadmissible.
"Maybe", "feasible" aren't an option when people invest in a business Smartphone; it certainly wasn't mine.

I took the phone back to the shop just an hour ago. I lost 150€ in the process but I'll put that on paying to avoid an exposure to a 'maybe', 'probably' and 'we'll see' from a company that should know better...

Shouldn't this thread be going on in the Browser blog? They are the people who know all about it, after all.

Whoah.. lots of angry people. :) Just wanted to say that its not like the first version of the browser is that bad and that not having the latest version makes your phone obsolete :)

*** Viipottaja,

The issue **isn't the browser** but what it says about Nokia's mindset concerning the E61. As a business user it just doesn't make me confident that I can count on Nokia for decent support & evolution of the E61 platform.

This is maybe acceptable for the 5300 user base but not for the E61 audience. They normally don't change smart phones as often as they change shirts.

It just shows that Nokia isn't a "strong partner" with this device. In my case, I decided to sell and cut my losses before I passed the point of no return.

I am livid. My new E61i phone gave cash to Nokia to develop E95 apps - that is out and out fraud.
I am not "whining" I am shouting to tell everyone never to buy Nokia as they will abandon each platform but take cash from you.
I will never buy Nokia again. I am stuck. If I could install LINUX I would.
Either use money I and others s603rd gave you to develop or open source the OS and hardware and stop selling abandobnware.

1. There's no such thing as an E95. There's an N95 and an E65, but no E95.

2. Your new E61i uses Feature Pack 1, which has the latest browser, so you're on the top of the heap. You have the latest everything on your device currently.

3. Your E61i can use any S60v3 app, just like the N75 or N95 or E90 can. It's all the same.

Posted by: Ricky Cadden | August 14, 2007 05:42 AM

Wow. Yes, quite a lot of angry people, but I have to agree with the few of them who think that Nokia should make its software upgradeable to newer versions: that's basically standard practice for all business applications. That said, I'm not sure all the anger/rhetoric helps anything other than relieve stress.

To be honest though, I only want support for animated gif wallpapers and screensavers for my N73 ME. So I suppose I don't have that much to be angry about.

Oh well. If anything changes in relation to upgradeability, I'm sure you'll be the first to let us know, so thanks.

Dylan.

PS: Since I'm here already, would you happen to know of any software (other than Psiloc) which allows animated wallpapers/screensavers on the S60 3rd Edition? (preferably without running the battery into the ground) Thanks!

PPS: This site's captcha is really hard to read >____>

very good, it works...