S60 Open to new features

3250 - sounds nice :)

I'm well aware of the need. Watch this space for All About Symbian and Symbian 9 compatibality issues.

This is defintely an issue for end users. The change has been communicated well to developers, but end users are unaware of this issue. Developers please label clearly compatibility. Definetely do not say something is compatiable when its not (there are a fair few doing this atm).

For those not familiar with the issue: Symbian 9 moves to the ARM EBI binary model (sort of a low level language change) which means it is not binary compatiable with previous versions. Thus applications running on Symbian 9 (including S60 3rd Edition) must be recompiled (and may require other tweaks). They will not run as is in their existing forms.

I have posted queries on many developer's forums asking for schedule of new versions. At the moment there seems to be no idea when most of the apps will have Symbian 9.x -versions as I haven't got that many answers.

I decided to buy N6630 just a week ago as my old phone broke down and I have no idea when my most used apps will be compatible with new E-series Nokias.

I just can't live without Papyrus, ProfiMail, Opera, FExplorer, Headline, AgileMessenger and others... Keep me posted when these are Symbian 9.x compatible and I will run to get new Nokia E61!!

=)juha

Forgot to subscribe posts... Sorry!

Well, part of the problem is that developers may not be able to afford to get the new devices as well as the old ones to develop on. With S60 2.x, they could develop for their own phone and it should work on other 2.x phones, and just get some friends to test on theirs (though despite S60 claiming to be a "platform", this is often not the case. But that's a gripe for another time!).

I'm also using 3250, so "eating our own dog food" too :) Note the support page for 3250 has just appeared in nokia.com, there are some apps available: http://www.europe.nokia.com/nokia/0,,86948,00.html

Actually there're many issues with this platform.

Difficulty to get a device to test on.

Difficulty to work with beta-testers - should provide each with personally signed version for his/her phone.

Difficulty of Symbian Signing - they didn't even have ANY Symbian9 device on their list last week. Let alone the experience of Symbian9 testing.

Being a project manager in a software dev. company, I can tell it's not going to be too fast.
Personally I think it's a step backwards for Symbian.

Moreover, I suppose some newer 3rd edition phones are not THAT good. Looking at E61, it justs loses the fight to Blackberry. I'm not a fan of Blackberries, but it is definitely worse in many aspects if you compare them side-by-side.

Rafe, Hugo, Alex: thanks for your comments and constructive feedback. I think your concerns are valid.

Personally, I can't do much, and I'm not the best person to reply. However, I think quite a many people from Nokia are listening to this conversation, and I'm sure they will do their best to improve the situation.

Is it true that J2ME applications still work?

I would imagine that majority of users have only installed ota-downloadable (java) applications.

I think this whole certification requirement is a braindead idea. It will dry up the software made for Symbian devices. Big players will continue to make software, but this will hit all the small software makers. That means the big players of the future.

In addition, I think that the security model is very broken if the security of the device is in any way based on certificating the software run on it. Not even Microsoft tries to do that with Windows.

A well made OS protects itself without any preliminary certification.

I have 2 N80s and although it's a great device I hate using any of them for more than 5 minutes. The reason being that besides testing our own solution I can do nothing with them, no 3rd party apps, no pre-installed games, nothing. It's sooo boring :-(

I agree with the other posters; IMO we will see a reduction in 3rd party apps from 30% to 50% due to Symbian Signed. Whether I'm for or against SS is another matter but it will (at least initially) dry up smaller 3rd party apps. Sure we'll see the Profimails and Smartmovies but no more OGG, FExplorer, etc...?

Moving your app to SOS 9 is not a simple recompile for anything besides the simplest of apps, it's actually quite a headache.

My 2 cents!

Boom

I suspect that will see many S60 3.0 apps quite soon. Just our company will release 4 apps in coming few weeks. Nokia tells about 40 3rd party apps being ported.

And about porting. We have experience porting from UIQ2 to UIQ3. Comparing with this, Series 60 porting is just nothing than recompiling. :)

Br, Andrey

There are already some 3rd Ed. compatible apps in https://www.softwaremarket.nokia.com/

There's a huge difference between "many 3rd ed apps" and the current catalogue of apps for 2nd ed devices.

Boom

Boom, yes of course there is a difference since the market only now starting for 3rd Edition and Symbian 9.1. But few apps is still better than 0 :)

Jukka, yes I agree, but I still feel in the next 1 to 2 years the number of 3rd ed apps won't be close to older platform apps if you take a years in circulation to amount of device ratio.

I'l surely miss FExplorer. That app has saved me a lot of problems.

For example transferring my SMS store between devices. I wanted to keep records of all my sms intact when I move from a 3650 to a 6600 to a 6630 to a 6680? By intact I mean the same sender number, the same date/time, etc. With FExplorer I could simply copy the mail folder over. I know it won't be possible on the new devices now.

Is this functionality available through any other solution (PCSuite?) on the new devices?

Boom

I'm sure FExplorer will appear to 3rd Ed, why not?

With PC Suite you can backup all of your data including SMS messages, and restore to a new phone. I do this all the time :)

BTW. SymbianOne, My-Symbian at least, use Handango's technology and list already N91 (it's 3rd Edition phone). Got to be a mistake, looking on the amount of apps available :) Same goes for AAS. What's up? I don't see Nokia 3250 listed yet, even though that is supposed to be shipping already.

Wow, does PC Suite really preserve all details of an SMS? I have to give it a shot.

I've had terrible experiences with the older PC Suite in the past so never ever use it; I guess I have to start now cause I use the 9300i and a 6681; maintaining the same quality of data on both phones is becoming very troublesome for me now.

Boom

The binary compatability break with OS 9.1 is a real problem for the new devices.

The good thing is that Java ME Apps are not affected. Curious to see my Java apps running on this wonderful device. (The specs regarding the implemented JSRs are encouraging).

I'm waiting for my 3250. Hope to get it soon ...

Björn

Boom, I used to hate PC Suite but today it's actually quite ok. Worth trying.

Tommi and anyone else, we (epocware) have some S60 3.0 apps in beta stage. If you wish to take part in the beta testing or just play with them, please send me the following info: your email + phone IMEI(s). My email is andrew at paragon dot ag.

I have an N80 with what looks to be early software. I'm just wondering if anybody else out there has an N80. It's currently non triival getting this phone working with Apple's iSync at the moment.

I informed Handango SEVERAL TIMES that the N91 and all other S60 3.0 phones are NOT backwards compatible with older Series 60 phones and that they should NOT offer S60 2.x applications for the N91. Unfortunately, Handango do not react. They seem to know better. That's exactly why I still run MY OWN software catalogs on my website, regardless of the shop. This is where everything is sorted and categorized correctly and yes, there will be a completely separate S60 3.0 software catalog on My-Symbian.

Regarding the Handango operated store ( http://shop.my-symbian.com ), I do not have access to it, it is entirely controlled by Handango and all the mistakes you see there are HANDANGO's mistakes, not mine. They're replicated in each and every Handango-driven store, including AAS, SybmianOne, etc. I can't do anything about it as they do not follow my advices. I think they'll change it only after N91 becomes available, people buy lots of incompatible software and then thousands of customers demand full refund.

Thanks Michal.

I guess we sould make a plea to Handango about separating clearly the applications for S60 3rd edition.

I just noticed Nokia Lifeblog's now available for a whole bunch of S60 3.0 phones.

www.nokia.com/lifeblog

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