Hacks for updating to Internet/Music editions
Last September, Samir asked will it be possible for existing N80 owners to update their devices to N80 Internet Edition. I promised to ask from N80 product manager. I did, and they promised to look into this, although they warned that it might be unfeasible or too risky. Or that people with (subsidised) operator variants would get frustrated as they can’t get the generic update.
Now, I’m starting to see these extremely unofficial hackety-hack guides about how to update from vanilla version or operator variant to the Internet/Music edition:
- How To: Update Nokia N73 Firmware to Internet Edition
- How To: Update Original Nokia N73 Firmware to Music Edition
- Nokia N80 Firmware Update to N80ie
- N80 to N80ie
- N80 - N80i firmware upgrade guide
- How to update your N80 to v4.0623.0.41
- etc.
Warning: don’t try this at home!! This kind of unofficial hacks may kill your device, and most probably will invalidate your warranty. Don’t come crying to me.
In any case, quite a many people don’t like the situation, not being able to update the software. For example, Stefan from Ring Nokia rants:
It kills me to have to link you to this. Why should users have to hack their phone in such a fashion just to get the latest and greatest features their device is capable of?! I loathe Nokia does this, wouldn’t you if you knew a better phone was just a software update away?
Déjà vu. Remember our discussions about the new version of the Web browser, about the WLAN Wizard, and about the Barcode Reader? Seems that every time we introduce a new piece of software that - for one reason of the other - does not work in existing devices, we get an angry blog crowd biting our ass.
Sigh.
Note for Nokia people: let’s try to release our latest software stuff also to existing Nokia users. I have a gut feeling it would pay off.
–
Ps. As said many times before, I’m not in any way working with firmware update stuff. I wish the team would start a blog, as there seems to be a great demand for it, but I digress…
“Déjà vu. Remember our discussions about the new version of the Web browser, about the WLAN Wizard, and about the Barcode Reader? Seems that every time we introduce a new piece of software that - for one reason of the other - does not work in existing devices, we get an angry blog crowd biting our ass.
Sigh.
Note for Nokia people: let’s try to release our latest software stuff also to existing Nokia users. I have a gut feeling it would pay off.”
This is exactly what must be done!!
Tommi can you please tell me only the codes/names of the phones that will be introduced in 4 days??(N76,N93i???)
I guess it’s tricky. People have this notion that since smartphones run a “proper” OS everything should be upgradeable, just like on a PC. In some cases this is correct, in some cases it’s not. As was said when people asked about upgrading the browser, some software may have SW or HW dependencies that prevent them from working on current devices.
However, it seems to me that many of the features that differentiate normal and internet / music editions of phones are essentially apps (Barcode reader, Yahoo! etc..) and perhaps some new themes. In some cases you’ve already made these available for separate download as a SIS file, why not just continue to do that?
> Tommi can you please tell me only the codes/names
> of the phones that will be introduced in 4 days??(N76,N93i???)
Yeah, sure. Also, would you like to know who killed Kennedy?
I believe some of this Nokia may even have brought onto themselves (or at least doesn’t do anything to change the notion that users have a “right” to software upgrades).
After all, recent N-series phones are officially called “Multimedia Computers”. And part of the idea that most people have of a computer (at least the somewhat tech-savvy crowd that probably still makes up a large percentage of Smartphone users) is that you can change its software, no matter if it came pre-installed, or if you bought or downloaded it later.
Of course, you will sometimes have to buy a new computer because the old one will no longer run new software effectively, but this usually depends on the user’s pain threshold, rather than a hard-and-fast rule from the manufacturer - “You would it with Feature Pack X and Language Y, and that’s what you get until you buy a new device.”
Not even mentioning how useful it would be for developers to, for example, quickly change a phone to a HK variant to try out a bug reported against Chinese…
Tommi are you the only guy out there, who understands the users?
Hello.
Not that it bothers me too much that me beeing a buyer of certain phones from day 1, i keep seeing new “versions” of it, a few months later. Speccially when they aren’t “i” versions.
But, if it is possible to hack the firmware, why don’t Nokia make it official and lett people choose whichever they prefer? I mean, what do they lost? It’s not like i’m not going to buy the phone anymore (in fact i have it) so, why don’t nokia allow it and “shut up” the critics?
@Marcus Groeber: Agreed! “Multimedia Computers” implies that I can do a lot more than I can do with just a phone or a smartphone. This includes adding future features to existing phones. I also belive that this is not a technical but more of a marketing problem.
I’m very happy that this discussion is starting now.
> Tommi are you the only guy out there, who understands the users?
No, I think there are hundreds (thousands?) of Nokia people who understand the average users much better than me. I’m already irreversibly brainwashed by all you early-adopters and techno-überlords…
Not giving the new applications to the existing users is already an insult enough, but the worst thing that I came across was the hiding of the existing applications from the user although they are already there preloaded on the phone. Take for example N80. Install one of those Task Manager applications (I don’t remember the name now). There is an option in that SW to show the hidden oapplications on the phone and even run them. Guess what I found preinstalled on my N80? The GPS navigation application which works with bluetooth GPS is there! Exactly the same application that I have seen on my friend’s E70. And for the hack of it, I opened it and tried it out. It works perfectly! Only thing that bugs me is that I have to always use the external application to see and use the applications that are already existing on the phone. I think that this kind of business strategy is going to do more harm than good
” Tommi can you please tell me only the codes/names
> of the phones that will be introduced in 4 days??(N76,N93i???)
Yeah, sure. Also, would you like to know who killed Kennedy?
Posted by: Tommi Vilkamo | January 4, 2007 02:30 PM ”
Didnt knew Finnish are soooo funny! LOL
This was answer of the year!
“Why should users be able to update the computer/software they have paid for?” - the question sounds just unbelievable. With these attitudes, no wonder why Sony Ericsson had upgradeable phones so much earlier…
Oh yeah, and I’m a happy E50 user myself.
since this probably is my first comment, i’d like to start with thanking tommi vilkamo for writing this excellent blog about s60. it gives me great pleasure reading your thoughts.
in december out went my ngage and in came the n80ie. i wanted to get the n80 already in september, but back then nokia announced the n80ie, to be released mid-september, so i decided to wait. and wait. hate, and wait. nokia wouldn’t tell whether or not it would be possible to upgrade the existing n80, so i felt i had no choice but to wait.
i would like to take this opportunity to rant about how much i hate nokia for 1) not supporting n80 upgrade since it’s possible, 2) not giving straight answers about the upgrading possibilities before the n80ie was *really* released (they could’ve said: it’s possible to upgrade but we don’t support it, or, preferably, it will be possible to upgrade through software update at nokia.com).
as is vividly apparent by reading the comments above, nokia (not tommi) has attitude problems towards those who buy their phones. and when i realised nokia also had disabled fm radio recording from the n80, i regretted i bought the phone.
when i hear from nokia that the n95 (which i have tested) is “what computers have become”, my opinion of nokia’s credibility sinks to new lows. too bad, because the n80ie & n95 are otherwise impressive. but acting as the new microsoft by trying to control what i can and can’t do with the device i own, that’s just not the way my cookie crumbles.
Thanks for linking to my guides, Tommi. Definitely do not try if you do not want to take the risk of breaking the phone. I actually took a greater risk by trying this out with my Mac on Parallels!
It works too and I wrote a guide on it as well.
http://thenokiablog.com/2006/11/05/how-to-use-nokia-pc-suite-on-a-mac/
@matze/Tommi: Nokia used to be a “hardware” company and now they’re becoming a “software” company too. There are some differences there and it looks like Nokia is still “adapting” to these changes.
For example, as a hardware company, Nokia are still saying software A runs on phone model X only. End users, who are familiar with PC world, will ask why it doesn’t run on phone model Y if both are using the same version of OS?
I agree with matze that we need thousand of “Tommi “s inside Nokia. So far, S60 has been marketed as a “platform”. The implication is the end users would expect the same software can run on other S60 phones too. If it runs on certain phone models only, it already breaks the concept of “platform”.
I have seen some compatibility breaks between S60 3rd devices (not including FP1). I think this problem has to be taken care of more seriously.
I think you will always have customer disatisfaction if you do what Nokia did with the N80. I mean they released the N80IE which is the same phone just with more capable firmware and N80 users had no way to obtain the same capabilities. That is not a way to please your customers especially when you consider the cost of the N80.
Today Parallels saw my N80 with software update and nokia pc suite. I haven’t had to run your script to change Parallels so it’s improving. I’m not going to try flashing though.
In the same topic of updating your phone, when will Nokia allow Software Updater to be installed on Windows XP x64? The first release worked fine, but once the update came out it simply wouldn’t install anymore.
“Yeah, sure. Also, would you like to know who killed Kennedy?”
Good one!!!
@Antony This get’s more important for Nokia as the Windows Mobile Platform is emerging. Just look how many different “phones” where announced by HTC some days ago. Software written for Windows Mobile will run on all of theses phones and many more from other manufacturers.
I don’t think this platfomr problems That S60 now have will persist in the future. I think we all know what’s have been going on. In a couple of years, 1st and 2nd edition S60 phones will be rare, and by then even if a 4th edition is available the programs will all be compatible (in the sake of retrocompatibility, the reason nokia gave to start the 3rd edition) so this problem is temporary only i guess.
Sorry for this digression, Tommi, but regardless to internet edition features integration, is the next N80 firmware release date known yet? I just experienced the biggest Nokia disappointment in 10 years: the new and super expensive wireless headset BH-900 can’t voice dial my N80. According to user discussions, some other phones saw that fixed with a more recent firmware…
Recent upscale Nokia product not being actually compatible with a recent upscale Nokia product - incredible.
Tommi, I totally agree that Nokia should have a legitimate way of doing this. I decided not to post the hacks on my blog because of the fear of people damaging their phone or investment as I would like to call it.
But you also have to look at it this way… this is what happens when you give users the ability to upgrade their own devices. Heck I ruined my phone just by doing an normal fw upgrade… wouldn’t be crazy enough to try hacking it.
Also, you know my stance on warranties… I don’t think people understand the importance of it yet. By using these methods it is in fact voiding their warranty and its especially harder for US residents with these devices which aren’t supported to actually get serviced. But I guess people have money to throw away like that.
Thanks for having the honesty to post about this issue Tommi.
My N80 experience has really damaged my opinion of Nokia. I’ve never bought a phone from any other vendor and I had a very positive attitude to Nokia. But I’m sad to say the very expensive (but buggy) N80 will probably be my last Nokia phone.
Nokia’s refusal to offer the N80i firmware to buyers of the original N80 has just been the final straw for me. It’s not an ‘upgrade’ it is a bug fix. It fixes some of the worst WiFi and camera image quality bugs and FINALLY (nine months after the product launch) provides VOIP support.
The N80i’s 4.0632.0.38 firmware seems to work perfectly with any original N80 - assuming you don’t ‘brick’ your phone during the complex series of hacks that are necessary to install it.
So I’ve got to assume that Nokia’s main reason to delay the firmware release on the N80 is so that the N80i can be sold at a higher price. I think that would be acceptable if it was just delayed for a few weeks, but Nokia has now apparently been deliberately withholding this critical firmware upgrade for almost THREE MONTHS.
I’m also almost ready to give up on Nokia. This is my 5th Nokia but probably my last.
I waited over three months to get my Pearl Black N80 from the Nokia Flagship Store in Chicago because initially the N80 was only available in silver in the USA. When I picked up my phone, whoops, I mean “multimedia computer” three months ago, I asked about the eventual arrival of the N80ie and what it would mean for current N80 owners such as myself. I was told by one of the managers that I would be able to upgrade to the features of the N80ie shortly after it would be released.
Fast forward to the present and still no new firmware for us N80 owners. I stopped at the store again two weeks ago and was told they do not know yet know what, if anything is planned for current N80 owners. To rub more salt in our wounds the N80ie is selling for $499, $100 less than the N80 was selling for when I bought it. So N80ie owners are getting the same hardware with more features like VOIP and better and more stable performance for a lower price. Thanks a lot Nokia!
My phone came with the 4.0623 firmware so I guess I should consider myself lucky compared to those that bought the phone with the version 3 firmware but like many other owners I have some niggling issues with 4.0623 that are driving me crazy: the horribly grainy picture quality in low light, the browser that runs out of memory quickly even though I’ve installed everything on my memory card, the flaky WLAN that all too often freezes my phone and randomly causes it to reboot and the noisy bluetooth audio with my Nokia BH-200 headset which I now avoid using with my N80 - funny , it sounds great with my old 6310i though.
Looking at the release notes for 4.0632 IE firmware it looks like most if not all these problems are fixed from 4.0623 so what is the justification to not release this to make all N80’s Internet Editions? Wouldn’t it then be easier to build upon the firmware in the future and improve it as the N80 and N80ie would be one and the same?
Another thing - what about A2DP? I remember reading a comment by a Nokia executive or engineer several months ago that the omission of A2DP from models such as the N80 is not due to the hardware but due to “time-to-market” considerations. Well, a lot more time has passed since the phone was released so what’s the excuse now in 2007? I think it’s ridiculous and a slap in the face to N-series owners that the 8800/8801 as well as many otherwise less capable and downmarket Motorola, LG, Samsung and Sony Ericsson phones have A2DP and Nokia’s premium N-series (and E-series) devices do not.
Tommi, thanks for bringing this to light. I hope everyone’s concerns and comments will reach the firmware group as well as Mr. Vanjoki. I’ve been a loyal Nokia customer for years and am willing to wait this out a little longer but I think we all need some type of official answer soon.
I think the main problem is that Nokia still behaves like a traditional phone manufacturer while specially with the N and E-Series became something like a PDA or Computer manufacturer. So it seems to me that Nokia still thinks that people will rather buy a new phone than keeping their current phone for a longer time. Of course maintaining a product for a longer time may reduce the revenue compared to selling new models. However maybe Nokia should consider to sell softwareupdates for their current models (beside free fixes for really serious problems) instead of pushing new and new models to the market.
Also - and this is somehow related to the problem - why not keep the main concept of the device? Why does EVERY new smartphone looks different than the other phones? Why not keep a good concept and just slightly update the hardware (processor, camera module, memory). After using a phone for one or two years I got familiar to its behaviour. Each new phone I buy means loss of productivity for some time when I have to learn where all these buttons etc. are.
Also I’m not a fan of Windows Mobile look at HTC. They have some product lines that basically stay the same over time. And I think they will become more and more populare. This is why they now start selling their phones by themselves.
In this aspect Nokia cannot compare itself to phone manufacturers that only produce “regular” cell phones.
I hope that in the near future I will see announcements from Nokia about a new OS release suitable for existing models instead of new hardware (regarding smart phone market). I would pay for them!
Alex
I’ve just seen the announcement of the N800 internet tablet. When tinking about the N770/N800 this is more the way Nokia should handle there smartphones.
Alex
I have had Nokias for a long time, and I just love gadgets, PDAs, etc. I have an Axim (Windows Mobile) a Tungsten (Palm) and I’m on my third Symbian phone (N80).
And yes, I have taken the plunge, done the shady deals, converted it to the IE version. For some time now, before all the very detailed guides, cold sweat running as Phoenix spat out some errors, but still, a successful conversion.
I have to say I don’t regret it, for as I see, Nokia is losing focus. The Symbian line is growing too fast and too diverse, with no noticeable difference between models. Now we have “standard” for each model, three sub-models, the plain, the internet and the music edition. Too much.
Please, focus on fixing what’s there, there are some amazing models out, *all* of them have flaws, and still no effort is seen to fix them.
Thanks, folks, good comments.
> nokia (not tommi) has attitude problems
No. Companies don’t have attitude problems. Companies don’t think or have opinions. Companies don’t have feelings. Only people are capable of those things.
> Windows Mobile Platform is emerging. Just look how many different “phones”
I consider the sales volumes as the main indicator, not the number of different models.
> is the next N80 firmware release date known yet?
Dunno.
> Why does EVERY new smartphone looks different than the other phones?
> Why not keep a good concept and just slightly update the hardware
Simple: phones, even smartphones, are also fashion/lifestyle items that reflect the buyer’s personality etc. Most people want a new design.
> I hope that in the near future I will see announcements from Nokia about
> a new OS release suitable for existing models instead of new hardware
> (regarding smart phone market). I would pay for them!
I wonder how many people like you are out there?
>> nokia (not tommi) has attitude problems
>No. Companies don’t have attitude problems. >Companies don’t think or have opinions. Companies >don’t have feelings. Only people are capable of >those things.
of course, but the reason i expressed myself that way, is because i don’t know who those people behind nokia/different aspects of nokia are. i don’t know who made the decisions i dislike and simply targeting the ceo just doesn’t make that much of a difference to me or anyone else. so of course you’re right about your description of companies and humans.
perhaps this situation arised because the people behind nokia likes to stay, just behind the company, thus making contact and feedback scarce. quite the contrary with you, tommi. note to self: tommi’s interest is not to answer for nokia, but rather discuss different aspects of the s60, i presume.
>> I hope that in the near future I will see announcements from Nokia about
>> a new OS release suitable for existing models instead of new hardware
>> (regarding smart phone market). I would pay for them!
>I wonder how many people like you are out there?
I think this depends on the market segment:
“regular phone”: Not many
“Smartphone”: A lot and getting more and more
Alex
/thomas: sorry for nitpicking
> tommi’s interest is not to answer for nokia
That’s right: I don’t have the mandate to act as an official Nokia spokesperson. I can only write my personal thoughts and opinions as an informed Nokia insider. But beyond talking, I do think this is an important feedback channel for us in Nokia. Quite a many important Nokia people are already listening this conversation. And in many cases when you have raised valid concerns, I have passed on the message to the relevant Nokia people. So thanks for sharing your concerns.
Firstly I’d just like to thank Tommi and Nokia for providing an open forum such as this one.
Secondly, I would like to add my voice to those who call for a more sympathetic (or, to use a better word, “strategic”) approach by Nokia management to the issue of providing usable and useful upgrades for their “smartphones”.
I say this because after several weeks of research I am finally the (mostly) proud owner of a silver E70. Since I purchased the phone 2 days ago I have been delving into the many features of the phone, particularly the browser. Although the phone provides a better browsing experience than my previous phone, I was a little disappointed to find (amongst other things):
1) No ability to have more than one browser page open at once, and;
2) inability to save images.
…issues of course that would be solved if a v2 browser were developed for the phone.
Needless to say, after looking through these forums I’m baffled that little development effort seems to being expended on these “old” devices. This seems to me very short term thinking on the behalf of those within Nokia that make these decisions.
Yes, it costs time, effort, and real dollars to devote development teams to enhancing old stuff - but if most other serious software/hardware providers can do it, so can Nokia. A case in point is Apple, I am still receiving upgraded firmware (including interface improvements) for my iPod even though the model was superseded 18 months ago.
This type of devotion to the “total” customer experience (not just the initial purchase) is what keeps customers happy and loyal, even in the face of newer and flashier products.
Nokia should be very concerned that if it’s customers are not kept happy weeks, months and even (heaven forbid) years after purchase, then they will think nothing of switching brands when the time comes. This especially applies to people like us: power users; business users - those who spend the biggest dollars on mobile devices.
So Nokia, how about devoting just a little more of your no doubt vast development resources into keeping those of us who spend the most on your devices happy. So that when we look at replacing our S60 phones with iPhones during the next year, we say “No thanks Apple”, we are happy buying Nokia devices because they really value their customers…
@Tommy: You write:
>> I hope that in the near future I will see announcements from Nokia about
>> a new OS release suitable for existing models instead of new hardware
>> (regarding smart phone market). I would pay for them!
> I wonder how many people like you are out there?
This is indeed an interesting question - is there a potential for a “premium” phone market where people don’t just buy a device that will look “dated” in six months, but can actually expect exciting new features to be added to the device in the future?
I don’t think many people would want to pay for the upgrades on existing hardware, but they *may* over time come to perceive a range of phone models as more valuable if they see that it is continuing to grow and evolve even after the purchased a device.
No idea how this trades off against hardware and design that *are* of course growing stale rather quickly - I wonder how many people have given their phone a second look this morning, after seeing the mock-ups of Apple’s iPhone… and no matter what software update you apply to an N70, it will never be quite as slim as a SLVR.
But it would be in keeping with the new “Phones have become Multimedia Computers” mantra.
Found this the other day on the US site in FAQ.
Q: How do I update my Nokia N80 to the Internet Edition?
A:
Nokia N80 Internet Edition
You can update your Nokia N80 to the Internet Edition by using the Nokia Software Updater.
To download the Nokia Software Updater, please do the following:
Go to http://www.nokiausa.com/phones/N80
Select ???Support and Software for Owners???
Select ???Phone Software Update???
Here are some solutions about the Nokia Software Updater that you can search for and may be of assistance.
“What are the benefits of updating my Nokia device’s firmware with Nokia Software Updater?”
“How often should I use Nokia Software Updater to update the firmware on my Nokia device?”
“What are the requirements for using Nokia Software Updater?”